Help With Motor Timing and Poor Throttle Response (Gecko 120HV)

FlyingDreams said:

I also had a problem with a 125A Gecko with SBEC, but the new firmware I got from Garret a few days ago has fixed the problem.

I have a Motrolfly 4320 (450 KV). At full throttle, the old firmware would cause the ESC and motor to lose sync really badly. Also if I advanced the throttle rapidly, it would lose sync. With the new firmware, I don't have any sync problems (at least on the bench). I didn't have any 6S lipos charged up, but with a Falcon 18x8 beechwood prop and a 6S lipo at 22.4 volts, I'm getting about 1500 watts. Everything was left on the default settings, except for startup power, which I set at 50%. The default setting for the startup power was a bit slower than I'd like.

I received the best customer support from Garret at Altitude Hobbies. He spent a lot of time with me trying to diagnose the problem since sometime in December.

If you are having issues with your Gecko send him email at altitudehobbies@gmail.com. He will take care of you.

John

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Im running the same motor, but my esc is the 125A Run it on 6S 65C 4500 Thor w/Xoar 17x10 prop and the new firmware fixed it all. At least on the bench. No more knock when I bump the throttle hard. Don't have anything to measure watts/volts or anything, but this motor seems to have a crap load of power. After the update it just seems more snappy and when it pushes against the back of my legs it seems to pull harder than before.

FlyingDreams said:

I also had a problem with a 125A Gecko with SBEC, but the new firmware I got from Garret a few days ago has fixed the problem.

I have a Motrolfly 4320 (450 KV). At full throttle, the old firmware would cause the ESC and motor to lose sync really badly. Also if I advanced the throttle rapidly, it would lose sync. With the new firmware, I don't have any sync problems (at least on the bench). I didn't have any 6S lipos charged up, but with a Falcon 18x8 beechwood prop and a 6S lipo at 22.4 volts, I'm getting about 1500 watts. Everything was left on the default settings, except for startup power, which I set at 50%. The default setting for the startup power was a bit slower than I'd like.

I received the best customer support from Garret at Altitude Hobbies. He spent a lot of time with me trying to diagnose the problem since sometime in December.

If you are having issues with your Gecko send him email at altitudehobbies@gmail.com. He will take care of you.

John

Click to expand...

Bushwacker said:

Im running the same motor, but my esc is the 125A Run it on 6S 65C 4500 Thor w/Xoar 17x10 prop and the new firmware fixed it all. At least on the bench. No more knock when I bump the throttle hard. Don't have anything to measure watts/volts or anything, but this motor seems to have a crap load of power. After the update it just seems more snappy and when it pushes against the back of my legs it seems to pull harder than before.

Click to expand...

With the DM4320-450, a 18X8 electric beechwood prop should do at least 7875 RPMs, 2050W and 91A on 6S. The same motor with a 17x10 on 6S should do a least 7640 RPMs, which is 1900W and 84A. I was spinning a 16x8 8400 RPMs with the DM4315-480Kv to 1610W and 72A.

Governing the power at the top end to cure a torque-speed and commutation issue that your product may have is not the answer, IMO.

Aeroplayin said:

With the DM4320-450, a 18X8 electric beechwood prop should do at least 7875 RPMs, 2050W and 91A on 6S. The same motor with a 17x10 on 6S should do a least 7640 RPMs, which is 1900W and 84A. I was spinning a 16x8 8400 RPMs with the DM4315-480Kv to 1610W and 72A.

Governing the power at the top end to cure a torque-speed and commutation issue that your product may have is not the answer, IMO.

Click to expand...

Just to be clear, I was testing with a lipo that had been at storage voltage. I've actually been using the same lipo in December when I had first tried the motor/ESC combo. I was only running it for 15-30 seconds at a time. I'm in the Boston area, so I didn't want to have to fully charge a 6s-5000 lipo with no place to fly (especially since I don't have the plane built yet).

I hope to get the numbers you suggest once I use a fully charged lipo. Ken (subsonicplanes) lists the wattage at 1800 W with 6s. My short testing started out at 1600 watts and after the second or third time, I was down to 1400 watts as the voltage was dipping. Extrapolating with the 1600 Watts at 22 volts, I should be able to get 1800 with fully charged lipo. Possibly with a higher C rated lipo, one could get 2000 watts. The problem showed itself with the previous firmware with a lipo at storage voltage, but the new firmware fixed it at the same voltage. That isn't proof that everything is cured at 24-25 volts. If I have some time this weekend, I will fully charge up a 6S-5000 lipo and do another test just to make sure there isn't a problem and report back here. (Maybe I'll put the fully charged lipo into my Carbon-Z cub with floats and take it out on the snow, .... Nah! Too cold!)

Right, but we find that decent Lipos will hold at or near 3.65 to 3.75 volts per cell right after the first few seconds at WOT, then hold this range under load throughout the entire flight. You can take a look at some of the Lipo discharge curves, or study log or telemetry data, and you see that this is normal. Resistance, impedance, and capacitance, will create an environment where holding 3.8 to 3.9 volts per cell, for example, while holding WOT for 10 or 20 seconds, even with a full charge, is nearly impossible. The voltage recovers as soon as the load is released, then sags again under WOT episodes.

From the above power readings, 1610W at 72A is 3.727 volts per cell, 2050W at 91A is 3.755 volts per cell, and 1900W at 84A is 3.770 volts per cell.

[MENTION=52]AltitudeHobbies[/MENTION] sent me FW updates for both my 85 and 120HV escs. I seem to have been experiencing a similar spooling condition (25 flights so far) with my 120 as discussed by the OP, and after stumbling across this thread decided to give the update a whirl. No known issues with the 85A (4315-480 Motrolfly) so far but I will run the update and see what's what. I will report back with my totally biased anecdotal findings.

ZTW-Motrolfly for life, son.

Having this problem!!!

3Drew said:

@AltitudeHobbies sent me FW updates for both my 85 and 120HV escs. I seem to have been experiencing a similar spooling condition (25 flights so far) with my 120 as discussed by the OP, and after stumbling across this thread decided to give the update a whirl. No known issues with the 85A (4315-480 Motrolfly) so far but I will run the update and see what's what. I will report back with my totally biased anecdotal findings.

ZTW-Motrolfly for life, son.

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Maidened my EF 74" Edge 540T today, with the ZTW 120A Opto, Motrofly 4330-282kv, and 8S... I HAVE THIS PROBLEM. Spool up is HORRIBLE, SO SLOW to respond to throttle. Once spooled up it has good power, but just not flyable this way 3D. Anybody have any updates???

Tom

Talk to Garret like Drew said. I switched ESC brands for HV. Of all the ones I have tried, Graupner has the best acceleration, but I have to borrow a Graupner radio to program the ESC as the programmer is super back ordered.

I mainly use Jeti Mezon, but that is because I now use their radio system. Still use the LV Geckos though.

Emailed Garrett.

Enterprise said:

Talk to Garret like Drew said. I switched ESC brands for HV. Of all the ones I have tried, Graupner has the best acceleration, but I have to borrow a Graupner radio to program the ESC as the programmer is super back ordered.

I mainly use Jeti Mezon, but that is because I now use their radio system. Still use the LV Geckos though.

Click to expand...

I did email Garrett as well, but figured I'd follow up on this forum as it seems to have fallen off after 28 pages without formal resolution...

Enterprise said:

Talk to Garret like Drew said. I switched ESC brands for HV. Of all the ones I have tried, Graupner has the best acceleration, but I have to borrow a Graupner radio to program the ESC as the programmer is super back ordered.

I mainly use Jeti Mezon, but that is because I now use their radio system. Still use the LV Geckos though.

Click to expand...

I've had problems with 3 ZTW ESC's in the last year (2 Geckos and a Mantis), gave up on them. I bought a Jeti radio a few months ago and have been switching over to Jeti Mezon controllers. They are expensive but I'm not the guy with 8-10 planes anymore which makes it seem more affordable.

Bloosee said:

I've had problems with 3 ZTW ESC's in the last year (2 Geckos and a Mantis), gave up on them. I bought a Jeti radio a few months ago and have been switching over to Jeti Mezon controllers. They are expensive but I'm not the guy with 8-10 planes anymore which makes it seem more affordable.

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If I were to switch I'd go with castle, but I'd like to get this brand new ztw working honestly. Hopefully the firmware takes care of it...

Tom