Discussion Choosing an air frame----frustrations!
- Thread starter Dr. Gonzo
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Dr. Gonzo
70cc twin V2
No rudder! Not vectored thrust tabs. Just elevons. It is mid motor, so that keeps air on the control surfaces. Amazing little design. Tons of fun. Props to MicroDan and NicoHobbies.com for this one.
As far as colors Top top/bottom difference is great for sure. I tend to watch the stab and gear when I lose orientation.
As far as colors Top top/bottom difference is great for sure. I tend to watch the stab and gear when I lose orientation.
ryan_m
100cc
I'll throw another opinion out there... I've flown 5-6 different PA planes from the small Addiction and the bigger one to the 58" Extra, AMR bipe, and the Bandit. I really didn't care for any of them. I would have 5 years ago. Then I flew profile planes that are incredibly light wing loaded. PA planes are similar, very very light wing loading. The addiction series in particular is very floaty, flies very well in slow harriers and close in stuff. But every PA plane I've flown is terrible at anything fast. Tumbles, pop tops, etc are just about impossible as the light wing loading prevents them. So if low/slow/close in stuff is your thing, then perhaps the PA planes will suit you. If you like high speed violence, they are the wrong choice. I don't like their construction techniques, and some things are just difficult (battery changes on the AMR for example). They seem somewhat fragile as well.
3dhs tends to be in the middle (on wing loading), though some planes are exceptions. The 42 and 51 Slick are just awesome all around planes. Fast violent tumbles on them are better than anything else out there I think. And they still harrier and do slow stuff well, and decent at precision too. The 59" Slick is different as others noted. Gyro said it best above - it's a precision plane that can 3d, while the rest of the Slick series is the opposite. Nothing wrong with that, but if you loved the 51 and want a bigger one, the 59 is not it. Go up to the 71. I've owned all the Slicks up to an 89" Slick. Have also had all of their extras up to the 87, and every other 4x" and 5x" plane they make. The 57" Extra is nice, but I'd probably buy the EF 60" one over it. I like the scheme better, and lately the company too. 3dhs doesn't seem to answer phones or emails much anymore, and although they make nice products, when possible I'll support companies with better customer service. EF has that. And planes seem to come back in stock far more frequently at EF. I truly love the 42" and 51" Slicks though, and will likely always own one, as nothing I've found can do what they do in tumbles.
I've owned all the 3dhs 7x" planes too, my favorite there is the Velox. I can fly that plane in a tiny little box, small airfield with ease. I can't do that nearly as well as the 71" Slick, 72" Extra, or 74" Edge, they take a bit more work. The Velox is just an awesome plane, violent and crazy pitch authority, and yet will carve the sky pretty well also. Very smooth harriers. And it can easily be flown in a space normally better suited to a 60" plane.
Next I'd choose a 71" Slick probably. I've had 4 of them, and like them too.
On the EF side, I've owned their 48" extra, edge, and MXS, as well as the 60" Edge and MXS. Have flown the 60" Laser and Extra, and I also own the EF 78" Extra.
I would toss the 78 out if your flying site is smaller, that plane can eat some airspace quick. Flies really well, but I need a larger field to fly in than say my 70" Velox, or any 60" plane. On the 60's, the Edge is great if you are learning 3d. If you want something incredibly stable in harrier and smooth all around, it does that. The MXS is as you noted fun and good at high speed antics. It's also great at slow stuff, though the Edge is slightly better. The Laser is very very similar to the MXS to me. I have about seven flights on a 60" Laser and between it and the MXS, well I'd buy whichever you think is prettier. Seriously.
As for the 60" Extra, I've only got one flight on one of those, and the servos were HV servos running at 5.0 volts, and the battery wasn't up to par. So the power stunk, and servos weren't quite right. Still I loved it. The owner has since fixed both of those issues and it should be out at our field this weekend, and I'm eager to play on it some more! I don't have enough time to tell where the Extra shines over the MXS/Laser or Edge, but I absolutely love the red scheme. If I kill my MXS I may replace it with an Extra just for fun. I think the Extra has a bit of wing rock in a harrier, at least compared to the other three, but it's by no means bad, and easy to just fly with it. Knife edge was smooth, as was just flying around. Nice plane.
Overall I think the EF planes are built a bit tougher/heavier than 3dhs, and have a slightly higher wing loading. But they still fly incredibly well somehow. Over the last couple years I have been drifting more and more towards the EF planes. The customer service, availability, and flying characteristics are all well suited to me.
Decide what your intended flying style is, and choose one that does that stuff well....
3dhs tends to be in the middle (on wing loading), though some planes are exceptions. The 42 and 51 Slick are just awesome all around planes. Fast violent tumbles on them are better than anything else out there I think. And they still harrier and do slow stuff well, and decent at precision too. The 59" Slick is different as others noted. Gyro said it best above - it's a precision plane that can 3d, while the rest of the Slick series is the opposite. Nothing wrong with that, but if you loved the 51 and want a bigger one, the 59 is not it. Go up to the 71. I've owned all the Slicks up to an 89" Slick. Have also had all of their extras up to the 87, and every other 4x" and 5x" plane they make. The 57" Extra is nice, but I'd probably buy the EF 60" one over it. I like the scheme better, and lately the company too. 3dhs doesn't seem to answer phones or emails much anymore, and although they make nice products, when possible I'll support companies with better customer service. EF has that. And planes seem to come back in stock far more frequently at EF. I truly love the 42" and 51" Slicks though, and will likely always own one, as nothing I've found can do what they do in tumbles.
I've owned all the 3dhs 7x" planes too, my favorite there is the Velox. I can fly that plane in a tiny little box, small airfield with ease. I can't do that nearly as well as the 71" Slick, 72" Extra, or 74" Edge, they take a bit more work. The Velox is just an awesome plane, violent and crazy pitch authority, and yet will carve the sky pretty well also. Very smooth harriers. And it can easily be flown in a space normally better suited to a 60" plane.
Next I'd choose a 71" Slick probably. I've had 4 of them, and like them too.
On the EF side, I've owned their 48" extra, edge, and MXS, as well as the 60" Edge and MXS. Have flown the 60" Laser and Extra, and I also own the EF 78" Extra.
I would toss the 78 out if your flying site is smaller, that plane can eat some airspace quick. Flies really well, but I need a larger field to fly in than say my 70" Velox, or any 60" plane. On the 60's, the Edge is great if you are learning 3d. If you want something incredibly stable in harrier and smooth all around, it does that. The MXS is as you noted fun and good at high speed antics. It's also great at slow stuff, though the Edge is slightly better. The Laser is very very similar to the MXS to me. I have about seven flights on a 60" Laser and between it and the MXS, well I'd buy whichever you think is prettier. Seriously.
As for the 60" Extra, I've only got one flight on one of those, and the servos were HV servos running at 5.0 volts, and the battery wasn't up to par. So the power stunk, and servos weren't quite right. Still I loved it. The owner has since fixed both of those issues and it should be out at our field this weekend, and I'm eager to play on it some more! I don't have enough time to tell where the Extra shines over the MXS/Laser or Edge, but I absolutely love the red scheme. If I kill my MXS I may replace it with an Extra just for fun. I think the Extra has a bit of wing rock in a harrier, at least compared to the other three, but it's by no means bad, and easy to just fly with it. Knife edge was smooth, as was just flying around. Nice plane.
Overall I think the EF planes are built a bit tougher/heavier than 3dhs, and have a slightly higher wing loading. But they still fly incredibly well somehow. Over the last couple years I have been drifting more and more towards the EF planes. The customer service, availability, and flying characteristics are all well suited to me.
Decide what your intended flying style is, and choose one that does that stuff well....
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FlyMike1
70cc twin V2
I want to throw this into this thread for those reading and trying to decide which airframe to get because this is the best description Ive seen so far,
The Edge has a double tapered wing. Straight leading edge, tapered trailing edge, and tapering chord from root to tip. The Extra has a triple tapered wing, tapered leading edge, tapered trailing edge, and a tapering chord from root to tip. These differences in wing design are the main factors. Others are tail shape and fuse dimensions, but then we get into a whole other realm.
Since the Edge has a double tapered wing, and the non-tapered edge is the leading edge, this makes it increadibly stable/predicatable in high alpha/post stall maneuvers. It helps to cut down on wing rock and it holds the lift better.
The Extra has a triple tapered wing. This wing is great for speed and pattern, yet this plane is still awesome at 3D. The leading edge is tapered (swept back) and this allows the high velocity air hitting the leading edge to slide off towards the tip. This cuts down on drag and promotes smoother airflow over the wing at higher speeds. However, because of this extra taper, the lifting area of the wing is reduced therefore, in theory, increasing wing rock over the edge's wing design. The Extra will also perform better snaps than the Edge due to the extra taper. The snaps will be smoother as the air isn't departing the wing as clumsily as it departs the Edges wing.
In short, the Edge wing is "better" for slow, high alpha, 3D maneuvers, spins, tumbles, etc. while the Extra wing is better suited for high speed or precision/pattern maneuvers.
I will say, both planes are excellent at both. Extreme Flight knows their stuff when it comes to designing these EXP's and they both are awesome. However people who are more geared towards precision flying or maybe just a sleeker looking plane will buy an Extra over an Edge, and people who are more geared towards all out 3D will buy an Edge over an Extra. But, it's great to have both... and I heard a rumor the Extra will "out-tumble" the Edge, and I suppose it's due to the triple tapered wing and it's higher stall speed allowing the wings to establish full departure easier and for a longer period of time.
Because of the greater stabilty/predictabilty of the Edge wing, I recommend Edge's to novices over Extras as the Extras will fly faster and stall faster while the Edges are a bit more forgiving.
Thanks to Tom K. in Florida
The Edge has a double tapered wing. Straight leading edge, tapered trailing edge, and tapering chord from root to tip. The Extra has a triple tapered wing, tapered leading edge, tapered trailing edge, and a tapering chord from root to tip. These differences in wing design are the main factors. Others are tail shape and fuse dimensions, but then we get into a whole other realm.
Since the Edge has a double tapered wing, and the non-tapered edge is the leading edge, this makes it increadibly stable/predicatable in high alpha/post stall maneuvers. It helps to cut down on wing rock and it holds the lift better.
The Extra has a triple tapered wing. This wing is great for speed and pattern, yet this plane is still awesome at 3D. The leading edge is tapered (swept back) and this allows the high velocity air hitting the leading edge to slide off towards the tip. This cuts down on drag and promotes smoother airflow over the wing at higher speeds. However, because of this extra taper, the lifting area of the wing is reduced therefore, in theory, increasing wing rock over the edge's wing design. The Extra will also perform better snaps than the Edge due to the extra taper. The snaps will be smoother as the air isn't departing the wing as clumsily as it departs the Edges wing.
In short, the Edge wing is "better" for slow, high alpha, 3D maneuvers, spins, tumbles, etc. while the Extra wing is better suited for high speed or precision/pattern maneuvers.
I will say, both planes are excellent at both. Extreme Flight knows their stuff when it comes to designing these EXP's and they both are awesome. However people who are more geared towards precision flying or maybe just a sleeker looking plane will buy an Extra over an Edge, and people who are more geared towards all out 3D will buy an Edge over an Extra. But, it's great to have both... and I heard a rumor the Extra will "out-tumble" the Edge, and I suppose it's due to the triple tapered wing and it's higher stall speed allowing the wings to establish full departure easier and for a longer period of time.
Because of the greater stabilty/predictabilty of the Edge wing, I recommend Edge's to novices over Extras as the Extras will fly faster and stall faster while the Edges are a bit more forgiving.
Thanks to Tom K. in Florida
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FlyMike1
70cc twin V2
And This...
Each of the 3 EXP airframes will do anything any of the others can do. They will all also do anything that is currently possible in the Xtreme Aerobatics envelope. Meaning that they are not just 3D planes, their capabilities go beyond that.
So in order to decide which EXP airframe to get you have to look at what niche in your fleet you are looking to fill or which flight characteristic or maneuvers you want to work on in terms of your skills.
Edge EXP - The most 3D oriented. If you want to learn, harrier, hover, roller, waterfall, tumbles this is the plane to get.
Extra EXP - The Precision Plane. If you want to focus on snaps, rolling turning, rolling loops, spins, TS maneuvers, complicated series of different maneuvers linked together, slow high yaw snakes, IMAC stuff this is your plane.
MXS EXP - The Jaw Dropper. If you want to do extreme fast aerobatics, carving turns, fast smooth snakes, high G, the most insane tumbles, the most insane KE spins, the fastest rolling spins, focus less on basic 3D this is the one!
So many of us have all 3 because they all fit well into one fleet (by design). I chose which to fly based on the maneuvers I want to practice or by which type of flying suits the field I am at best.
Hope that helps! Good flying.
Each of the 3 EXP airframes will do anything any of the others can do. They will all also do anything that is currently possible in the Xtreme Aerobatics envelope. Meaning that they are not just 3D planes, their capabilities go beyond that.
So in order to decide which EXP airframe to get you have to look at what niche in your fleet you are looking to fill or which flight characteristic or maneuvers you want to work on in terms of your skills.
Edge EXP - The most 3D oriented. If you want to learn, harrier, hover, roller, waterfall, tumbles this is the plane to get.
Extra EXP - The Precision Plane. If you want to focus on snaps, rolling turning, rolling loops, spins, TS maneuvers, complicated series of different maneuvers linked together, slow high yaw snakes, IMAC stuff this is your plane.
MXS EXP - The Jaw Dropper. If you want to do extreme fast aerobatics, carving turns, fast smooth snakes, high G, the most insane tumbles, the most insane KE spins, the fastest rolling spins, focus less on basic 3D this is the one!
So many of us have all 3 because they all fit well into one fleet (by design). I chose which to fly based on the maneuvers I want to practice or by which type of flying suits the field I am at best.
Hope that helps! Good flying.
Buick Mackane
70cc twin V2
Thank you ryan_m and FlyMike1. those are two of the most informative summations i've read regarding the differences between the various airframes. i'm sure it will help many pilots. i have an EF 60" extra and love it. i have a 51" 3dhs slick and love it as well. the differences between the two in flight characteristics is amazing. thank you for your input regarding customer service. i prefer to do business with companies that provide good/prompt customer service. i don't have an MXS in my hangar yet, but want to get one after reading your assessment. are the lasers similar in character to the mxs?
3dbandit
100cc
They are kinda similar, the Laser is a little more nimble whereas the MXS is faster and more of an on rails feel. I feel the MXS is a better airframe for getting comfortable down low and slow as it is very forgiving.
Nothing I have ever flown can get wound up like the laser. The Laser is insane in high energy/violent maneuvers and carries speed a little better through those maneuvers (making it a little less forgiving, but better for more experienced pilots wanting to do combination maneuvers)
Buick Mackane
70cc twin V2
[MENTION=699]3dbandit[/MENTION] thanks for the input. i think an MXS will have to be my next choice of airframe. i need a plane that is forgiving as my skills aren't at a level that give me confidence to get real low. i've been flying a tech one epp and putting in time on the RF sim so hopefully by spring i'll be polished enough to get low.
Dr. Gonzo
70cc twin V2
3dhs seems to have a supply issue and customer service issues. Shame as they seem like great group! They seem to be out of stock very quicly on almost everything often. EF seems to get most things back in quickly. PA seems to have turned around with tbe new distributer. The Katana MX looks like a good all arounder. Nice looking for sure. It seems the airplane buisness is going through a change at the moment. I cant put my finger on it yet.