Help With Motor Timing and Poor Throttle Response (Gecko 120HV)
- Thread starter AKfreak
- Start date
Ahblair4
70cc twin V2
Bahdump-tishhh! Nice one gyro lol
AKfreak
150cc
I did, I busted the Xoar at the very last moment of the Maiden flight. I crabbed perfectly, I touched down nice and straight (rudder work) and just as the speed was bleeding off a gust came and popped the plane back off the runway. I pushed down elevator by instinct I guess, and when it came down I hit and broke the tips of the brand new prop. I swear we had 20+ gusts quartering to full cross all day. I flew my MXS first, so I was good to go (so I thought). I had to use a 20x10 APC that I had on hand because the 20X10 Falcon I had for backup and testing has a huge hole that needs to be spaced down to 8MM. Why on earth would Falcon do that. Its easy to drill stuff bigger, but not so easy to make a hole smaller.
Anyways, the plane flew every nice. I added two click of up Elevator and 2 clicks of Left Aileron to trim it and then snapped it, rolled it, and flew inverted (it tracks nice and locks in slow) The plane flies great, as I hoped it would. It has unlimited vert, nice and floaty at slow speed with no wing rock. I will say that the throttle was as expected (slow/lazy to respond). You have to wait a second for full throttle to kick in. Now, I didn't want to come here and complain, because I am extremely happy with everything except the throttle response.
My friend and Align Team Pilot Ben Stroick is also an amazing airplane pilot. He agreed to fly the Extra, but I told him he could only do so after he flew the MSX (really twisted his arm, ha). Now I didn't say anything to him at first, but his first words just taxiing it was wow, the throttle is very lazy. After he took off, he also said, " you have to wait a sec for the throttle to kick in" (my thoughts exactly). He also said, it's no to to bad, but he and I both agree it can and should be much better.
Below is a go-pro video (sorry for the wide angle stuff), it was impromptu, but as you can see, the plane flys pretty damn good for a Cheap ARF. I hope that the future holds new stuff for Fly-Model. If they listen to me, I think things could be very bright. If not, it is what is, another I-Mac plane that does 3D.....
[video=youtube;0-vL2adU4Lc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-vL2adU4Lc&feature=share&list=UUCa6sk3mAf6dT4wY9TYaNNg[/video]
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3dNater
3DRCF Regional Ambassador
Well like you said, it is hard to see what is happening in the vid, but it does appear to have silly power. I hope you can figure out the throttle response so it is more to your liking. I don't have any experience with the ztw esc's personally so I am not much help. It does look like the plane flies pretty well though.
gyro
GSN Contributor
Ok, first, congrats on a successful maiden!
Sorry you really did break a prop! But now you have an opportunity to pick up a 20x10 and get closer to the 3000w you want.
So I really don't want to go back and forth on the subject much more, however I'll agree with you and your friend Ben that the spool up on the MXS with the 85a and the Extra with the 150a are different, and that the Extra's setup isn't as instantaneous. However, what I really want to know, is what does this prevent you from doing?
If the ZTW doesn't fit your style that's fine, just say so, and sell the ZTW here in the classifieds. But to me personally, and the people that I've let fly my planes, everyone seems pleased with the throttle response on the Geckos.
I guess I just don't want to see a great performing and reliable product put down for not doing something I don't think it should "have" to do (spool 2500w + instantly).
In case you haven't seen it, here is Brian flying the ZTW 155a ESC on a Motrolfly 4330-400kv wind with 6s5000 packs. 20x10 Xoar electric prop. The power is about 2600-2650 watts.
[video=youtube_share;PN0tss1JDD0]http://youtu.be/PN0tss1JDD0[/video]
I think you'll notice in the video that you can absolutely hear Brian pulsing the throttle during his rolling harriers, beginning at the 1:30 or so mark, and that the response is more than adequate to keep the nose locked into place at all times. Also, the throttle is pulsing during the low inverted harrier and hover starting around 2:12, then again in upright harrier around 3:00.
I close this post with this: I'm not disagreeing with your observations, if you feel the response is slow, then it's slow... after all your satisfaction is the only thing that matters. What I want to express is that it's not slow to me, and I've flown electric from 32" foamies to 90" giant scale, 150w to 6000w. I feel there are some differences to be expected between small and large planes... so at the end of the day, do what makes you happy! I really appreciate your open minded approach to answering your questions, and to accepting the many replies and solutions given so far. Best of luck with your new Extra, and congrats again!
Sorry you really did break a prop! But now you have an opportunity to pick up a 20x10 and get closer to the 3000w you want.
So I really don't want to go back and forth on the subject much more, however I'll agree with you and your friend Ben that the spool up on the MXS with the 85a and the Extra with the 150a are different, and that the Extra's setup isn't as instantaneous. However, what I really want to know, is what does this prevent you from doing?
If the ZTW doesn't fit your style that's fine, just say so, and sell the ZTW here in the classifieds. But to me personally, and the people that I've let fly my planes, everyone seems pleased with the throttle response on the Geckos.
I guess I just don't want to see a great performing and reliable product put down for not doing something I don't think it should "have" to do (spool 2500w + instantly).
In case you haven't seen it, here is Brian flying the ZTW 155a ESC on a Motrolfly 4330-400kv wind with 6s5000 packs. 20x10 Xoar electric prop. The power is about 2600-2650 watts.
[video=youtube_share;PN0tss1JDD0]http://youtu.be/PN0tss1JDD0[/video]
I think you'll notice in the video that you can absolutely hear Brian pulsing the throttle during his rolling harriers, beginning at the 1:30 or so mark, and that the response is more than adequate to keep the nose locked into place at all times. Also, the throttle is pulsing during the low inverted harrier and hover starting around 2:12, then again in upright harrier around 3:00.
I close this post with this: I'm not disagreeing with your observations, if you feel the response is slow, then it's slow... after all your satisfaction is the only thing that matters. What I want to express is that it's not slow to me, and I've flown electric from 32" foamies to 90" giant scale, 150w to 6000w. I feel there are some differences to be expected between small and large planes... so at the end of the day, do what makes you happy! I really appreciate your open minded approach to answering your questions, and to accepting the many replies and solutions given so far. Best of luck with your new Extra, and congrats again!
Aeroplayin
70cc twin V2
Falcon sells the spacer tree for $3 and if you did not order them with the prop, you may end up paying $7 for shipping. I called them and they were nice enough to throw them in an envelop and send then first class mail. I now order them together and keep a few extra on hand.
They probably do it so that the customer does not have to drill or ream their props, and potentially screw it up and complain about off-center holes or off balance props. They should, tho, let customers know on the site that they are needed unless you're putting a 20 inch prop on a Q80, which is highly unlikely, of course.
The 20x10 may give you more Watts-in, and more airspeed, but the added pitch will add drag and therefore make your situation worse, not better. You would need a 19x10 to make the load about the same, so comparing apples to apples here, did your friend fly it with the 20x8 or the 20x10? I would not use a 20x10 on 12S with the 216Kv because it will either bog the RPMs, or raise the Amps. Maybe both. The 20x10 is the right prop for the 206Kv on 12S.
AKfreak
150cc
[MENTION=95]Aeroplayin[/MENTION] thanks for the info. He only flew the 20x10, and it was a heavy APC at that. I am getting a 19x8 from Gyro, and I ordered a 20x8, and I have a Falcon 20x10 just in case I fell like testing it. I will soon find out if in fact the Gecko is the limiting factor when it comes to throttle response in my case.
I am going to write a letter to ZTW, and see if they might find it in their hearts to give us the ability to teak the motor start with a finder adjustment via the software, or offer a beta firmware with a more aggressive starting curve. I mean every wind, prop/power combo is different. Having the ability to fine tune the parameters is somthing I think most of us would like to have. I am sure as 3D and electrics gain more popularity more people will move to high voltage setups.
If I could just chop the throttle response delay in half on the 120HV I would be ecstatic. I would feel more confident to get low having the ALMOST instant punch out that I am used to with all my other stuff.
I really like ZTW, they make good stuff. For me to think any company can offer a one size fits all product isn't very realistic. With that said, I do think as they grow their stuff will only get better. I also believe it can only get better by giving honest real world feedback. So I give a thumbs upo to ZTW, I love the hell out of it in my 64" MSX, and I like it in my Extra.
Thanks to all and I cant wait until the morning after the Easter bunny has come. It's back to the airfield for round II with the Extra.,
I am going to write a letter to ZTW, and see if they might find it in their hearts to give us the ability to teak the motor start with a finder adjustment via the software, or offer a beta firmware with a more aggressive starting curve. I mean every wind, prop/power combo is different. Having the ability to fine tune the parameters is somthing I think most of us would like to have. I am sure as 3D and electrics gain more popularity more people will move to high voltage setups.
If I could just chop the throttle response delay in half on the 120HV I would be ecstatic. I would feel more confident to get low having the ALMOST instant punch out that I am used to with all my other stuff.
I really like ZTW, they make good stuff. For me to think any company can offer a one size fits all product isn't very realistic. With that said, I do think as they grow their stuff will only get better. I also believe it can only get better by giving honest real world feedback. So I give a thumbs upo to ZTW, I love the hell out of it in my 64" MSX, and I like it in my Extra.
Thanks to all and I cant wait until the morning after the Easter bunny has come. It's back to the airfield for round II with the Extra.,
gyro
GSN Contributor
AKf, it's a 19x10 you got from me 
Also, what is your current start strength at? Have you tried the highest setting?
Tonight when I was setting up my reclaimed 74" edge, I set it at the 20% I had recommended to you, and I think that might be to low. I use 20% on the smaller planes but think the big HV setups might need more.
I too am running a heavy APC, 19x10 I think, but this ZTW is on 8s and paired with a budget Tacon 110 motor I'm getting test data on.
I think I'm going to bump the start strength up some and see where that gets me.
Also, what is your current start strength at? Have you tried the highest setting?
Tonight when I was setting up my reclaimed 74" edge, I set it at the 20% I had recommended to you, and I think that might be to low. I use 20% on the smaller planes but think the big HV setups might need more.
I too am running a heavy APC, 19x10 I think, but this ZTW is on 8s and paired with a budget Tacon 110 motor I'm getting test data on.
I think I'm going to bump the start strength up some and see where that gets me.