Knife Edge tips.

[Steve_B]

I guess everyone has their views on KE mixing. I'm not a good enough flyer to speak with any authority but this was a post that Michael Wargo made elswhere on the subject of KE mixing. It mirrors well my thoughts on the subject, but coming from Michael carries a bit more weight (I hope Michael doesnt object to me copying his post).

...KE mixing is basically trimming the plane on a different axis. Would you ever consider not trimming a plane for level flight? Maybe just fly it out? Kind of pointless to fight it the whole time. The flying happens to direct the plane in the direction and attitude you want to fly. Flying it out is really pointless in my opinion. You are not flying, but fighting. Make sense? It is an unwanted characteristic in the plane and has little to do with flying skills. Finally, forget pure knife edge flying, it makes you and the plane look bad every time you roll it.

Lazy, or not knowing how to do it (mixing) certainly are good reasons not to do it, but to all reading this, do yourself a favor. In most cases you have to practice to look better. Here, just a couple of clicks on your radio will do it. And no I am not saying its cheating, and I don't believe you will be a better pilot if you don't mix. Since there are no expert pilots I know that don't do it, that nullifies that idea. Trust me, mix your plane. You will like the result and won't fight with your plane.
Personally, I do it on my second flight. I trim for level first, take notes on tendencies on the first flight, then start basic mixes, then tune on the next.

No one opinion is right and no one is wrong of course, but I'd say at least try mixing and if you like it and it improves your flying personally I'd stick with it. I paid too much for all those fancy Tx features to not use them out of principal

Steve

 

[Ohio AV8TOR]

I guess everyone has their views on KE mixing. I'm not a good enough flyer to speak with any authority but this was a post that Michael Wargo made elswhere on the subject of KE mixing. It mirrors well my thoughts on the subject, but coming from Michael carries a bit more weight (I hope Michael doesnt object to me copying his post).




No one opinion is right and no one is wrong of course, but I'd say at least try mixing and if you like it and it improves your flying personally I'd stick with it. I paid too much for all those fancy Tx features to not use them out of principal

Steve

I agree with this completely on trying the mixing. It's not training wheels it's just a way to fly better just like programming in expo or dual rates, unless you don't use those either. If thats the case then skip on the KE Mix.

 

[robj]

Then when you get into KE circles, figure 8's ,etc, when the plane is across the field from you, belly at you, lay it over a bit to make it easier to see(reflection off the belly) and easier to control with the elevator. When I say lay it over the top wing tip will be a point more away from you. Only a few degrees. If the plane starts sinking a bit, you use the elevator to get it back up.

just the way I do it. Bail out is always roll to inverted, then down elevator. Seems when I was learning and tried to bail out upright I would hold the rudder and that would keep the nose toward the ground.

+1 on mixing if needed.

 

[RCAddict16]

I discovered just that on the weekend. Doing KE loops with my 51" AJ Slick and discovered it has a wicked snap out of KE if you use too much rudder. The 48" Edge and Laser EXP's on the other hand are totally predictable in KE, possibly the SFG's at play? I might reduce rudder throw a bit on the Slick to prevent the snap.

Only flaw to date I have heard about slicks.

 

[Space Bat]

I personally and just my humble opinion think people should not KE mix until they are proficient in flying knife edge each direction and correct and compensate to keep it locked in....I think this will aide your skills and prove your finger / eye coordination as you constantly adjust the correct inputs....after all you wouldn't teach a new driver to drive around with the cruise button engaged so they drove around at a constant speed...without knowing how to work the brakes and accelerator properly to maintain speed


Once skilled at doing KE for ease of use and to give yourself less to do...then yeah a mix is something that should be up there on the to do things...

 

[flylow3d]

I personally and just my humble opinion think people should not KE mix until they are proficient in flying knife edge each direction and correct and compensate to keep it locked in....I think this will aide your skills and prove your finger / eye coordination as you constantly adjust the correct inputs....after all you wouldn't teach a new driver to drive around with the cruise button engaged so they drove around at a constant speed...without knowing how to work the brakes and accelerator properly to maintain speed


Once skilled at doing KE for ease of use and to give yourself less to do...then yeah a mix is something that should be up there on the to do things...

Agreed!!

 

[Steve_B]

Using the learning to drive analogy..
Would you try to teach someone to drive with a car that pulled hard to the right whenever you touched the brakes? Would you argue that fighting with a car where the steering was not properly adjusted would improve their driving skills
Would the learner with the bad steering then be a better driver than the guy who had the same time behind a wheel but had learned on a car that tracked straight? Personally I think the guy who spent most of his time and effort learning how to fight with dodgy steering would be the worse driver because he never had time or built the confidence or to move beyond fighting with the car. Not to mention that the guy with the dodgy steering may well have crashed.

in fact now I think of it the last RC plane I written off happened when I was doing KE and the un-mixed KE coupling caused the plane to roll partly inverted and I lost orientation and went in hard. No great loss it was only a cheap HK Pitts Python but i know for sure that crashing that plane did not improve my flying one bit. in fact my KE skills have only moved on since I discovered mixing.

I guess this is one where everyone has their own opinions and no amount of discussion is likely to change them. To some extent it probably depends on the plane because many of the good 3D monoplanes hardly have any KE coupling anyway.

 

[Aaeolien]

I always go out to the field and say I'm going to work o this thing and get the mixes set up. Talking about my EPP edge. As it seems to need a little bit of aileron and elevator. Not much but it is there. I just haven't done it yet. I just fly thru it. Of course I don't fly a lot of KE because I don't feel super comfortable flying KE in circles and figure 8s while trying to correct the little bit of coupling that is there. I feel that taking the time (which my lazy rear has not done) and setting up my mixes will help my confidence in flying KE.

Ok I just convinced myself. If the breeze is down and I can really see exactly what I need later I am going to program those things. Lol. I really feel it needs to be a nice calm day to do it though so you are working with the just the plane and not tring to compensate for wind.

 

[Space Bat]

Using the learning to drive analogy..
Would you try to teach someone to drive with a car that pulled hard to the right whenever you touched the brakes? Would you argue that fighting with a car where the steering was not properly adjusted would improve their driving skills
Would the learner with the bad steering then be a better driver than the guy who had the same time behind a wheel but had learned on a car that tracked straight? Personally I think the guy who spent most of his time and effort learning how to fight with dodgy steering would be the worse driver because he never had time or built the confidence or to move beyond fighting with the car. Not to mention that the guy with the dodgy steering may well have crashed.

in fact now I think of it the last RC plane I written off happened when I was doing KE and the un-mixed KE coupling caused the plane to roll partly inverted and I lost orientation and went in hard. No great loss it was only a cheap HK Pitts Python but i know for sure that crashing that plane did not improve my flying one bit. in fact my KE skills have only moved on since I discovered mixing.

I guess this is one where everyone has their own opinions and no amount of discussion is likely to change them. To some extent it probably depends on the plane because many of the good 3D monoplanes hardly have any KE coupling anyway.

Perhaps learn not to get into a dangerous car perhaps.....???

Or don't fly something you are not skilled to fly

There is absolutely no merit in cheating if you do not have the skills to do something before hand it won't make you an accomplished pilot - it merely means you are spending more time fixing planes blaming all sorts of other things...motors' esc' servo's, batteries - tx systems...except yourself....

This is just obvious....Learn to fly before adding the nice things that make it easier...such as cruise control

What next Auto take off and Landing ??? becuse you cant take off and land properly - by putting it on a sw switch mix...good grief

 

[Ohio AV8TOR]

I personally and just my humble opinion think people should not KE mix until they are proficient in flying knife edge each direction and correct and compensate to keep it locked in....I think this will aide your skills and prove your finger / eye coordination as you constantly adjust the correct inputs....after all you wouldn't teach a new driver to drive around with the cruise button engaged so they drove around at a constant speed...without knowing how to work the brakes and accelerator properly to maintain speed


Once skilled at doing KE for ease of use and to give yourself less to do...then yeah a mix is something that should be up there on the to do things...

Just stirring up the pot here for conversation, I learning flying RC helicopters before there was gyro's for the tail rotor. How many people today learn to fly a RC Helicopter without a gyro? My guess is the answer is no one. A gyro is automatic gear on heli's so why not learn to fly the tail and be proficient without a gyro.