vortex generators, thicker control surfaces

[Flyingjon]

Hey guys, I just got done reading David Scotts latest article in Model Airplane News. It's about vortex generators and thicker control surfaces. He claims that by making your control surfaces thicker and by adding vg's you can improve controllability by up to 50%! Do any of you guys do any of these modifications or have real world experience with them?

 

[Flyingjon]

Here is a link to the article. hopefully it works. http://www.modelairplanenews-digital.com/man/october_2014/?pg=44&pm=2&u1=friend

 

[mtndewdewd]

Flyingjon;1597 wrote: Hey guys, I just got done reading David Scotts latest article in Model Airplane News. It's about vortex generators and thicker control surfaces. He claims that by making your control surfaces thicker and by adding vg's you can improve controllability by up to 50%! Do any of you guys do any of these modifications or have real world experience with them?

Chip Hyde has been using them on one of his patter ships (VG's) and says they make a huge difference. Was thinking of putting them on my 100cc yak to see and if they make a big difference I will put them on the 3.1m sukhoi I am building.

 

[Astrohog]

"controllability" is a very arbitrary term. Low-speed, high-speed, 3D, IMAC, pre-stall or post-stall??.....



It has been my experience that any one change in an aircraft design may or may not give the desired results, but will most certainly affect another characteristic of said aircraft!! (good or bad, intentional or unintentional!).



Any aeronautical engineers here yet?



Astro

 

[Terryscustom]

I'm no aeronautical engineer, but I do love to experiment with out of the box thinking. I 100% agree through my experimentation in the last couple of years that any slight change on a plane seems to have at least some other effect somewhere in the flight envelope. That was my first thought too.....what else does it effect.



I still have to read through it, but looks like this is the article?: http://www.modelairplanenews-digital.com/man/october_2014/m3/Page.action?lm=1406348290000&pg=44

 

[Flyingjon]

Terryscustom;1639 wrote: I'm no aeronautical engineer, but I do love to experiment with out of the box thinking. I 100% agree through my experimentation in the last couple of years that any slight change on a plane seems to have at least some other effect somewhere in the flight envelope. That was my first thought too.....what else does it effect.



I still have to read through it, but looks like this is the article?: http://www.modelairplanenews-digital.com/man/october_2014/m3/Page.action?lm=1406348290000&pg=44

Yes that's the article....

 

[Flyingjon]

It says in the article that top speed is affected by 1% with VG's. If it actually improves the slow speed and stall characteristics by 50% why doesn't every 3d arf worth it's salt have them preinstalled or included in the box? Seems a little too good to be true......?

 

[HoumaX]

I know I have tried them on my Carden, flown with and without them in sequential flights. I much prefer flying with them. Knife edge loops in low rates no problem. Granted they can be done without them but with them requires a lot less pilot input. Knife edges require less than half the normal rudder and spins are great. Just makes it a little easier on the pilot.

 

[BalsaDust]

HoumaX;3250 wrote: I know I have tried them on my Carden, flown with and without them in sequential flights. I much prefer flying with them. Knife edge loops in low rates no problem. Granted they can be done without them but with them requires a lot less pilot input. Knife edges require less than half the normal rudder and spins are great. Just makes it a little easier on the pilot.

Agree with you on the knife edge. I designed some to go on one of my foamy's and KE flight was greatly impoved. Also seemed to be a little more stable in a harrier.

 

[Racedrvr]

The new Carbon Cub has VG's on almost the entire wing span. The ones on the outboard portion are located further forward chord wise than those near the root. I suspect a lot of experimentation would be required with regard to their placement to get whatever effect you are looking for.