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EF 30-40cc. Laser VS MXS

  • Thread starter Dead-Stick-Jake
  • Start date
D

Dead-Stick-Jake

I'm thinking of going 30/40cc this coming season (unless I get a great deal on a 50cc or even 100cc)

Who's flown or owned both of these?

Its a hard decision between the two so who can comment on their traits and capabilities?

I know "you can't go wrong with either one" but I'd still like a few comments.

I've had the 68" yak, 48" edge, 60" edge exp, 88" edge and got stick time on the older 88" yak and the new 91" yak.
I have to say I liked the 60" edge and 91" yak the best.

I've never flown an MXS or laser so I really don't know much about their characteristics.
 
This is a pretty open ended conversation. First the EF 60" Edge is about as good as it gets in performance. [MENTION=95]Aeroplayin[/MENTION] uses a PAR system that ranks that airframe at the very top in the currently available aiframes, so of course you love it. I have all of 30 seconds on a 91" Yak (my flight was interupted by ATC duties and the owner took back over) so I have little opinion on that airframe. I did own the 110 Yak and have a 60" EXP.

Next I am assuming gas is your power choice. Cost wise, I am going to tell you to go with a 60cc over any of these choices as you can put it together for the same money. If electric than this is size is a wonderful, especially since you will already have 6s 3300s and the charging system.

The reason for gas I say the cost is similar is that these "40cc" airframes demand a higher quality power system like the VVRC-40 or DA-35. No cheaping out! Also the servos are basically the same as the 60cc specs and you need the same number of them. Your cost delta is essentially the airframe itself only and you can save this by getting a EME-60, or a used DA-60 or GP-61. A few things are pricier like prop and spinner, but IBEC, RX, extensions, shipping, etc will the same as a 91" Yak. The 91" Extra requires a bigger motor for my power standards, so it is in it's own class again.

I have 7-8 flights on my Laser and more on the MXS. I personally like the Laser design better in general, but that might also reflect my skill set as the Laser makes me look good, and I don't yet have the mad skills to push the MXS. Also these two planes are almost 2 pounds different on my current setups. Another aspect is that I have the Laser on my new Jeti system, and the MXS is on the DX-18. I also have not flown them back to back as I have not touched the MXS since sometime in October.

Neither of them fly like the Edge and Yak as those two are very similar to me, the MXS is super aggressive and fast, and the Laser is the all around plane with stupid pitch authority.
 
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Here is a video of the MXS Tyler shot for me on a prop that plain did not work on my setup, but you can see how agressive the MXS is. Also this is before I discovered that I like the SFGs with no tips best.

[video=youtube;bhsewh-Pakw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhsewh-Pakw[/video]
 

Aeroplayin

70cc twin V2
I know "you can't go wrong with either one" but I'd still like a few comments.

You can't know how much I agree with this comment. For the past seven years, I've been supporting the 3D habit of my young son and I, and considering the number of planes and components I've bought, nothing is less helpful than someone tell me "you can't go wrong with either one" or "just buy it and fly it".

This explanation is probably more than you bargained for, and asking guys which one they like better is something I do also as long as I see a video of them flying the plane to get a feel for what they want out of it. If they don't do much, then they don't expect much, and if I flew around in the pattern, I'd probably put a lot less effort into it.

Anyway, to eliminate disappointment, and along with what I know about aircraft design, I assembled the physical characteristics that I like in a plane, and now rank planes accordingly. Most of it, of course, is subjective, and others will like higher or lower values, but I've found that the planes I have the most fun with have the following profile.

  • A wing loading under 30, but unlike cube loading, wing loading is tough to keep down as the size of the plane icreases, so with a wingspan over 100 inches, you have to compensate.
  • A wing cube loading in the 8.0 to 8.5 oz/cu ft range, but some XA and IMAC guys find this too light on the wing and will prefer something no less than 9.5. I've seen some really good IMAC performers come in at 10.5. I still prefer something under 8.5 or 8.6.
  • A power loading of 250 Watts per pound or higher, and I really like 275+ W/lb better. Some will say that's 'overpowered' but I'm not sure what that means. As far as I'm concerned, give me the power and I'll figure out how to use the throttle.
  • A 1.7-to-1 thrust to weight ratio, and 2 to 1 is just super, IMO. Again, some will say this is wasted power, but if you get low and slow and out of position, you'll wish you had it.
  • An aileron to wing area ratio of greater than 26%, and many are coming in at 32% now so this has become less of a priority.
  • An aspect ratio that depends on the fuse-to-wingspan ratio. This is also low on my list, but planes that have nearly the same fuse length and wing span will need a lower AR than more scale planes. My older aerobatic planes have an 88% to 90% fuse to wingspan, so an AR up to 6 is fine, while most of my current planes are almost 100% with the spinners on, at which point I like to see a number just under 5.
I've used this now for a while and it has never disappointed me. Of course, a lot of this means watching the all-up weight of the plane, and how it is powered.

With that said, the MXS and the 74 Laser have an interesting story.

With a 12.8 lb AUW with a piped DA-35 spinning a 20B Vess to 7650 RPMs, the Laser will have a 25 wing loading, an 8.85 cube loading, a 274 W/lb power loading equivalent, and a 1.91 to 1 thrust to weight ratio. The AR is 4.76 and the aileron ratio is 30%. Very good numbers in my book. I know the power is possible, and the AUW may need to be monitored during the build.

As a comparison, other planes with similar numbers are the 71" AJ Slick at 10.35 lbs with 2880W, the EF 78" Extra 300 at 12.64 lbs with 3000W, the 3DHS 72" Extra 330 at 10 lbs even with 2400W, the 91" Aeroworks Extra 300 Freestyle at 5400W, and a few more with a slightly higher and a few more with a slightly lower PAR.

It is my understanding that the MXS with the same DA-35 with an ES pipe can come in around 13.6 pounds if you control the weight during the build. If this is the case, then the WL will be 24, the cube loading will be 8.0 (both because of the increased wing area), a slightly lower 250 W/lb power loading, and a slightly lower 1.76 to 1 thrust to weight ratio. The aspect ratio and aileron ratio is about the same, just slightly different because of the wingtips.

The increased weight and surface area will also increase the parasitic drag of the plane, which means a slower acceleration and possibly a slower response to control input.

We also have to consider that perhaps because of the lower power loading numbers, many guys are using the DA-50 and the 50cc motors, like the Motrolfly DM5335-195, which will add weight and increase the power. If you can keep the plane under 15 pounds (all-up), the only real change is that the wing loading and cube loading will increase a bit to about 27 oz/sq ft, and 9.2 oz/cu ft. Although the wing loading is fine for me, this is a bit of a noticeable difference for me since I prefer 8.5 oz/cu ft.
 
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Aeroplayin

70cc twin V2
Forgot to mention that the EF 60" Edge is one of my all-time favorite planes, and at 5.5 pounds with a DM4315-480 spinning a 16x8 PJN to 8630 RPMs, has a wing loading of 16.8, a cube loading of 7.32, a power loading fo 289 W/lb, a 2-to-1 thrust to weight, a 4.76 aspect ration, and a 31% aileron to wing ratio.

If you give me the power setup on your 88 Edge and the all-up weight, I can give you the numbers for that plane too since I have all the other specs.
 
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vegasking

70cc twin V2
I've had the MXS and it is a 40-50cc size plane, I had the DA-35 W/ ES Composite pipe and it was ok. I agree about the above mentioned about going to a 50cc size for a little more money unless transportation is a issue. In my opinion after having purchased over 20 airframes in the last 3 years from 3DHS, EF and AJ Aircraft that "you can't go wrong with any of them". Buy what looks best to you and have fun and don't worry about all the high tech mumbo jumbo some speak of.
 

Aeroplayin

70cc twin V2
Not that I don't trust what you say, but it seems you are implying that every one of the 20 planes you bought over the past 3 years fly exactly the same.

I have quite a difference experience so if you are saying that all 20 fly the same, regardless of the power systems, all-up weight, etc, then how am I to consider your comment credible? How can I believe that? I know that most guys in the business, like you, need guys like me to think less and buy more. I know you'd rather we just buy stuff and try it, and move on the next plane quickly, but I'd rather measure twice and cut once. Sorry, but mumbo jumbo sounds a lot smarter to me than groping around in the dark.
 
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AKfreak

150cc
Do the 50cc... Used DA-50's are cheap. I dont know for how long, as they habe kind of fallen out of favor in the Extreme 3D category. IMO, the 83" MSX from EF has changed this. I for one think the DA 50 on the EF MXS is the best plane I have ever flown. Knife edge is amazing... It's like a foamy. Rolls fast, or slow. The ability to set up the wings in several configs offers the user the ability to dial some of the planes flight characteristics (wing, tips,sfg's). This is unlike most offerings. To me, it does everything well.

I have 5 gallons through mine, and every single time I fly it, it just gets better. Landings, wow! This plane will slow down so far before drops. Most planes drop a wing when they get slow (stall), this plane drops laterally as long as you dont induce wing rock. One can almost do a type of low alpha harrier landing with no power. Amazing plane!

I was worried about the extra weight of the DA-50.., in a single word, Dont! The EF 83" MSX isn't a normal sized 30-40cc plane. This thing is pretty big, but its light!. There are a few things that would cause one to shy away from this plane. Cost, even more difficult to swallow is Shipping cost ($160ish for me), the hardware is adequate, the wheel pants need to be reinforced, and the wing bolts are hard for me to tighten up (very close to a cross brace).

Ill say it. ;) Buy it, Fly it.. You cant go wrong.. LOL
 

vegasking

70cc twin V2
Aeroplayin, I never said they all fly the same! I was referring to them all being good flying airframes without any major bad habits.
 
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