I Need To Vent

[djmoose]

So let's just cut to the chase and this is REALLY all about Hobby King, correct?

Even if I didn't despise Anthony Hand...there really aren't too many things that make sense to order from them.

Lipos from the American warehouse are about it...but even then HobbyPartz is always within a few bucks...not to mention value hobby.

Even cheap servos...I know the hxt900s are pretty decent...but the emax 9grams are pretty good too. That's what I use and I just get them locally at lazertoyz.com (that's another vendor we need to mention...Dan and Diane are AWESOME!)

ESCs USED to be a hit for them but HURC, Altiude, 2DogRC, etc etc and many more have hobbywing and ZTW here in the states....everyone has lights...so to be truely honest...it hasn't been hard at all not buying from HK. Anything cheap is available here in the states with cheaper and faster shipping...

I think we just need to promote our favorite vendors....if people mention HK, just take the time and send them a link to the comparable product at one of the many sites we've mentioned along with a personal experience/reason why we like them. Don't even bother making it a "domestic" issue...don't even tell them "you should have..."

Tell them something like "hey, I got pretty much the same thing for X amount with only $3 shipping and I got it in 3 days....plus, I know the owner and he responds to my emails...I'm REALLY happy with them."

Dont even say anything bad about HK...just say how much you enjoyed your experience with the other vendor. Don't make it about them or their purchase AT ALL!! Make it all about YOUR experience!

People get a point and realize things MUCH easier if you don't tell them they're doing something wrong...but if they simply hear YOUR better experience...it makes a WORLD of difference.

 

[Murocflyer]

I just saw on FB tonight that CheapBatteryPacks will be selling LiPos soon as well. I'm certainly glad to see that and I have been getting my custom pack NiMHs from Mike at CBP for pretty much the whole time I have been flying RC. For those of you who fly slope or use NiMH for your Rx batts, they really can't be beat.

Jeff, I like your style and a great way to "suggest" better alternatives from HK.

There was a time when HK was THE cheap source for RC stuff. People would shop there simply because of the price point but then have to put up with lousy customer service or long shipping times, and of course very high shipping rates. BUT they would claim, "I only paid 30 cents for this servo." That is simply not the case anymore and the reason I started that thread on RCG. I wanted to point out that there are alternatives to HK right here in the US that sells stuff just as cheap and you get great shipping and great customer service to go along with a great product. And to me, it really doesn't matter if the stuff is made in china or not. If folks are looking for a product based on price they CAN find that product here in the US and don't have to buy from HK.

I have never ordered anything from HK. It's not that I dislike them, I just have nevered ordered anything from the. I think all the horror stories scared me away.

You know I believe they had their chance. They had their chance and I think they blew it. They really could have dominated the RC industry if they had better customer service and were on the up and up with their business practices. But what really gets me is the people that troll around these forums and say how great HK is and if you ever say anything bad about HK they are attacking you and trying to belittle you openly in the forums. I call these folks the HK goon squad and I am not sure how they are allowed to get away with that. But I have learned to accept it and just put those people on ignore. I feel sorry for the new guys on the forums who do not know any better.

And if anyone wants to search for products that are made here in the USA, then here is a list of companies that are making RC products right here in the USA: http://www.3drcforums.com/showthread.php?480-Made-In-The-USA Granted, some of the stuff that goes into the final product comes from outside our borders, but the product is designed here and assembled here in the US. FMA and Castle comes to mind.

Great discussion gentlemen and it is great to be able to discuss this very volatile topic without the personal attacks and name calling. That is rare on forums these days.

Frank

 

[RCAddict16]

Great posts frank. I have been doing this quite a bit. Recently, my friend needed a new ESC and I suggested that instead of getting a $20 ESC from HK with $20 shipping, he should get a ZTW ESC for $24 and $3.50 shipping from altitude hobbies.

 

[njswede]

I don't know what atrocities Anthony Hand has committed (but I'm interested in hearing! Pray tell, Moose!), but I'll say one thing: HobbyKing has been a bit of a game changer for the hobby industry. All of a sudden cheap vendors are popping up all over the place. A lot of that has been happening in 2012, it seems. And why are they doing that? Because offering reasonable products cheap is the only way to survive the competition from HK.

I think we're living in a pretty nice era of the RC hobby. With a few clicks of the mouse, I can have anything from the highest end professional components to the low-end stuff I put in my foamies delivered to my house within 2-3 days. The differentiation of the market is just amazing!

I'm also kind of "done" with HK. I used to buy their Zippy batteries, because they're decent and cost almost nothing. But recently I've found similar or better batteries for almost the same low price. Really, the only thing I still use HK for is the OrangeRX receivers. They are great for foamies where I don't want to spend $50 on a receiver.

 

[Space Bat]

I don't know what atrocities Anthony Hand has committed (but I'm interested in hearing! Pray tell, Space Bat)

Well......if you are asking.....

HK murdered my unborn baby my partner Britney Spears was carrying :grumpy:

Lets face it where would RC be without China??

Would we really want to be paying 3-10 times the price for our planes......COME ON!!

Simple fact like it or not we need cheap low cost countries...even if they are ripping off the likes of our companies that do business there - copying designs and selling equivalent stuff...

It is a price you pay when doing business over there...to cry foul about it is pretty pointless unless you REALLY are prepared to pay for everything to be non China and 10x the price...

This doesn't make any sense...we want cheap - why pay more? we want quality....we want our own economies not to suffer and yet...we want cheap...

There isn't a way round it as a consumer....we want our hard earn coin to go farther...so whilst certain products we will pay more - for the most part if ANYONE offered the direct equivalent...at more than half the price and you got same level of quality of goods and service most of us would take it regardless of where it came from...we can argue we don't necessarily get that from China and the goods are not as good...but then I open my EF box and look at the product and fly it and think damn this plane is good...and 99% of that plane if not all is sourced from China from the plane- the motor the esc the servo's the lipo....etc

HK may not provide the same quality - but they will...and people should get used to the idea...will it effect 3dhs Extreme Flight....PA etc of course it will...however do business in China and you should expect a level of fall out from copying doing business there....but equally it will force Western companies to address why they do business there and how to stay ahead of their products being cloned...and the only way is to be innovative and to keep pushing the boundaries and improvements..and stay one step ahead in development...

This will give us better products in the long run...Can anyone say that the planes coming out now from the big 3 are worse than their past planes...of course not the planes get better and better...

But the bubble of cheap labour isn't forever...and as EF have found cost of materials...staff that know their worth after training...the price of stuff goes up...eventually the product over time gets more expensive...and you start to look elsewhere to make savings and improve profit margins....its a cycle..and it's just China are sitting in the bubble at present...but like all bubbles it will burst...

The west will always now be looking for cheap manufacture..and it will always find it...perhaps more into India...perhaps then ex soviet block countries - perhaps then into Africa....we will get stuff built as cheap as we can by utilising the cheapest resources available...THIS is CAPITALISM at it's best

 

[Steve_B]

And if anyone wants to search for products that are made here in the USA, then here is a list of companies that are making RC products right here in the USA: http://www.3drcforums.com/showthread.php?480-Made-In-The-USA Granted, some of the stuff that goes into the final product comes from outside our borders, but the product is designed here and assembled here in the US. FMA and Castle comes to mind.

Frank

Most if not all Castle products are physically manufactured in China or Mexico. They are designed in the USA but that's about it... I'm not sure about FMA.

Lets not kid ourselves here.. almost everything you can buy for mainstream RC is made in China or other low cost overseas locations. Even when buying from 'home country' vendors the vast majority of the money spent goes to the manufacturing country (usually China).. these are simple facts. I cant understand where the multiplier you talk about comes from when 8$ of your $10 spend goes straight to China It's a bit like arguing that you are supporting the domestic economy because you bought a new Toyota from the dealer down the road

Steve

 

[gyro]

Most if not all Castle products are physically manufactured in China or Mexico. They are designed in the USA but that's about it... I'm not sure about FMA.

Lets not kid ourselves here.. almost everything you can buy for mainstream RC is made in China or other low cost overseas locations. Even when buying from 'home country' vendors the vast majority of the money spent goes to the manufacturing country (usually China).. these are simple facts. I cant understand where the multiplier you talk about comes from when 8$ of your $10 spend goes straight to China It's a bit like arguing that you are supporting the domestic economy because you bought a new Toyota from the dealer down the road

Steve

Steve, I believe that you stated the point he was trying to make in your reply? Consider when buying local, that $8 of the $10 goes to China right? That means that $2 goes to the local vendor, and back into the community... rather than all the money going overseas and to shipping costs.

-G

 

[Steve_B]

Steve, I believe that you stated the point he was trying to make in your reply? Consider when buying local, that $8 of the $10 goes to China right? That means that $2 goes to the local vendor, and back into the community... rather than all the money going overseas and to shipping costs.

-G

Gyro,

The point i was picking up was that Frank said the benefit to the local economy was 5 times what you spend:

Shopping "locally" has a multiplier effect. One dollar spent at locally owned business returns FIVE TIMES that amount within the community through city taxes, employee's wages and purchase of materials and supplies at other independent businesses.

That just doesn't stack up when you consider that 80cents of that doller doesn't even 'see' the local economy but goes straight to China. But yes I'm not disputing that a small proportion finds it's way into the local economy but probably not much more than if you purchased from say, the USA Hobbyking warehouse. Basically the domestic business you are supporting is a guy unpacking stuff out of boxes that come from China and putting them is smaller boxes and dropping them in the mail to you. Call me cynical if you like I don't see how that is going to have a significant impact on economic recovery.

Basically no economy will survive if it's based only on importing goods from oversea and expecting to be able to survive on the mark up it adds to those goods before selling to the end consumer. It's that sort of thinking that has got the western world into the economic hole it's in right now.

Steve

 

[Steve_B]

Here's an alternative and possibly better way to support your domestic economy...

If possible buy genuine in country manufactured products. Unfortunately as we all know that's not going to be possible very often with RC stuff, so in that case just buy the stuff as cheaply as you can from China or wherever else sells it at lowest cost. Calculate the money you saved compared to local vendors selling the same Chinese goods but at a higher price, and stick that money in a jar. Once you have saved up enough in your jar purchase something (doesn't have to be RC related) that was genuinely manufactured domestically. That way at least you are supporting domestic manufacturing industry.

thoughts?

 

[Murocflyer]

Most if not all Castle products are physically manufactured in China or Mexico. They are designed in the USA but that's about it... I'm not sure about FMA.

Lets not kid ourselves here.. almost everything you can buy for mainstream RC is made in China or other low cost overseas locations. Even when buying from 'home country' vendors the vast majority of the money spent goes to the manufacturing country (usually China).. these are simple facts. I cant understand where the multiplier you talk about comes from when 8$ of your $10 spend goes straight to China It's a bit like arguing that you are supporting the domestic economy because you bought a new Toyota from the dealer down the road

Steve

Steve,

I don't believe that to be the case. When I first started this list years ago, I checked with CC and asked them specifically where their products were made. They said some of their components were made outside the US because they simply could not be found here in the US. Can you please verify your source so I can make sure my Made in America list is accurate? Thanks.

EDIT:

I was hoping to see something here to help but I'll keep digging.

http://www.castlecreations.com/information/about-us.html


Frank