• If you are new to GiantScaleNews.com, please register, introduce yourself, and make yourself at home.

    We're 1st in Giant Scale RC because we've got the best membership on the internet! Take a look around and don't forget to register to get all of the benefits of GSN membership!

    Welcome!
  • Unless you are a paid advertiser NO more posting advertisement in the individual vendor forums. You may post in the Manufacturer's Announcements section only but only ONCE a month unless your a paid advertiser.

Small Gas 3D

A

Abrams

50cc
You can skip to the bottom and look at the question. Sorry, I'm long winded.

I've been on a quest to build a small (emphasis on small) 3D gas plane. There is a field within 10 miles of my house that is a little on the small side. Anything over a 60 size and people start getting nervous.

So me and a buddy have been playing around with small Aeroworks airframes and shoe horning 20cc DLEs into them. He has an Extra 300 that is working out pretty well... after changing out the standard 20cc ignition for a 50cc ignition.

I built one up from a .46 to .61 size Edge 540 (I like Edge 540s). It was very tight, but it worked. When I took it out for maiden, I was a little dsitracted by my son who is JUST starting to fly by himself (9 years old) and honestly a little punch from lack of sleep. I put it up with the ailerons reversed and cork screwed it into the ground. That was an AMATUER MISTAKE that I am not very proud of, especially when I always make my son do a surface check EVERY TIME before he takes off.

MORE PRERAMBLE TO QUESTION
Anyway, I've been looking at an AW Extra 260, but I just don't think they take small planes as serious as 3DHS. I'm seriously looking at the 3DHS 58" Edge 540 and the 65" Viper. It doesn't look like either one is design for gas, but I think with some slight reinforcement in the motor box, it would probably work.

QUESTION
Anyone done something like this? Am I totally out there?

The Volex would be perfect, but I would like to stay as close to 60" as possible. The Viper is a little bigger than I would like. I also just like the straight leading edge on the Edge 540.
 
njswede

njswede

150cc
I'm sure you can stuff something like an Evolution 15cc into a 58" Edge or 65" Vyper. But honestly, it's not going to fly as well as its electric counterpart. It will be heavy and you'll have a tough time balancing it.

If you want 3DHS, you'll have to go up to something like a 71" Slick, 70" Velox or 72" Extra for it to work well. I have a 72" Extra on a 36cc gas engine and it ROCKS!

But if you want to go down this route, talk to Enterprise on this site. He's done some experimenting with gassers in smaller planes and he's very knowledgeable.
 
A

Abrams

50cc
I was looking at the Evolution 15cc because it is the smallest ringed gas engine I have seen. Then a friend pointed out the weight. The 20cc DLE is lighter than the Evolution 15cc and makes more power. When I put the 20cc in that little .46-.61 AW Edge 540, I expected it to be nose heavy. So I place the components expecting that. It was TAIL HEAVY. I had a hard time getting to be slightly nose heavy, even with a heavier aluminum spinner.

Thanks for the info. I will talk to Enterprise. I'm so new, I don't know who it who yet.
 
cwojcik

cwojcik

70cc twin V2
Abrams said:
I was looking at the Evolution 15cc because it is the smallest ringed gas engine I have seen. Then a friend pointed out the weight. The 20cc DLE is lighter than the Evolution 15cc and makes more power. When I put the 20cc in that little .46-.61 AW Edge 540, I expected it to be nose heavy. So I place the components expecting that. It was TAIL HEAVY. I had a hard time getting to be slightly nose heavy, even with a heavier aluminum spinner.

Thanks for the info. I will talk to Enterprise. I'm so new, I don't know who it who yet.
Click to expand...

Check out Enterprise's thread for sure. His 10cc gas Sabre worked OK. It flew pretty much like a glow plane. I think that the 15cc project will be much more successful.

You need to be careful comparing weights here. The Evolution 15 bare motor is 21.4 oz, ignition is 3.5, and muffler is 6.1 oz. It's a much bigger, heavier, and quieter muffler. The same weights on the DLE 20 are 22.9, 4.2, and 1.8 oz. The DLE muffler is loud and very small. So with a Pitts in-cowl muffler the Evolution 15 will be quite a bit lighter than the DLE 20.

The 58 Edge might work OK for the 15cc Evolution. I have heard Arron wonder about putting the OS 15 in one when it comes out. You will of course need to strengthen the firewall and modify the motor box, and also likely relocate the rudder servo to the tail. Even if it comes out at 6.5 lbs it will still fly better than the AW!
 
A

Abrams

50cc
Quite frankly, I don't like the fuel system on the Evolution. It doesn't use a pump, it uses exhaust pressure like a nitro. I like Walbro carbs. They have been used on everything from weed eaters, to chainsaws to backpack leaf blowers for the last 20 years. If you can't figure out how to rebuild one, you can buy a new one for $35.

The problem the the DLE20 is the ignition system. They tried to make it a gas engine for those new to gas. They put an advance curve in the ignition that artificially keeps the RPMs up to prevent stall. If you replace it with a 50cc ignition, it starts acting like a 50. I have a friend that just did that. It worked great.

I know, for this purpose, electric is the better choice. I just like gas. I don't mind the loud muffler. I kind of like a plane that sounds like a chainsaw.
 
SnowDog

SnowDog

Moderator
There are a number of people who have mounted the DLE-20 on the Vyper 65...the cowl doesn't fit on super cleanly, but the plane flies excellently.
If you really want to stay below the 7x size airframes, this is a valid choice.

If you really want to stay with the 58-60" airframes, I think you'll have a hard time finding a good combination.
 
Enterprise

Enterprise

150cc
I have done another gasser project similar to what you are trying to do with a Hangar 9 Katana. It ended up close to 8 pounds! I flew it a few times, and frankly was not impressed. It went super fast and rolled insanely fast, but that was it. It needed more elevator and I frankly did not feel like messing with it anymore. It is still up in my attic and with a hour or two could be put back together. I was using a O.S. GT22, but either my Mintor 22 or a DLE-20 could be fitted as they are very similar in layout and have the same mount pattern I believe for the beam mount. My friend Joe did a EF 64" MXS with a DLE-20, and it was not totally successful either. Another local pilot now has it, and I am not familiar with it's current status.

One thing I did learn is that a 17" prop is not ideal for this size airframe. Ground clearance is a concern as well as gyroscopic effects. I was running a Xoar 16B for the best effect and also 15x8x3 Graupner 3 blade was nice.

The reason I picked the 15cc over this is that it will like 15" props at higher RPM and it will be generally easier to convert than the massive carb that sticks through the firewall and make the beam mount work for the larger motor. The ignition module is smaller and lighter, as well as a smaller pitts muffler.

I have done a lot of homework on this very subject and like you had become frustrated trying to find suitable airframes. It will be a few weeks before my project is finished due to a lack of time. Keep us informed of which direction you end up going.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A

Abrams

50cc
SnowDog said:
There are a number of people who have mounted the DLE-20 on the Vyper 65...the cowl doesn't fit on super cleanly, but the plane flies excellently.
If you really want to stay below the 7x size airframes, this is a valid choice.

If you really want to stay with the 58-60" airframes, I think you'll have a hard time finding a good combination.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That is good information.

When you mean cowl doesn't fit, can you give a little more detail? I would expect the bottom of the cowl to be pretty much non-existant. When I did the Aeroworks Edge 540T, I had to hack a pretty large hole in the firewall to get the carb far enough back that I could get the spinner back to the cowl. I doubled up the thickness on the top and bottom of the firewall to provide plenty of strength. When it was done, it didn't look bad from the outside... except for the monster jug hanging down.

I'm leaning toward the extreme flight 60" Edge 540 the Enterprise is using. Although the span is not that much bigger, it looks like it has about 15% more wing area. But the Viper looks like a good choice.
 
SnowDog

SnowDog

Moderator
Abrams said:
Thanks! That is good information.

When you mean cowl doesn't fit, can you give a little more detail? I would expect the bottom of the cowl to be pretty much non-existant. When I did the Aeroworks Edge 540T, I had to hack a pretty large hole in the firewall to get the carb far enough back that I could get the spinner back to the cowl. I doubled up the thickness on the top and bottom of the firewall to provide plenty of strength. When it was done, it didn't look bad from the outside... except for the monster jug hanging down.

I'm leaning toward the extreme flight 60" Edge 540 the Enterprise is using. Although the span is not that much bigger, it looks like it has about 15% more wing area. But the Viper looks like a good choice.
Click to expand...

Found a link to the pics of the 65 Vyper with the DLE-20 - you can see for yourself.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17145182&postcount=3475
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top